The Fox Boss Project Part 1.2 - this is no longer the Fox Boss 302 Project

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 09/06/2014 at 19:15 • Filed to: Fox Boss

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This will now be the the Fox Boss 351 Project!! :D

I went to another junkyard today to find some Mustangs, couldn't find but a few but they were all 3.8L V6s and one 4-banger:

Along the way, I found some more sad cars that could be saved. :'(

Let's see what cars Oppo can ID, and prepare for the sadness:

I don't think it's kicked in yet..

After than hour checking the whole lot, I was about to walk out and buy that $150 302 short block on Craigslist, but then, I struck freaking gold....

A wrecked '91-97 F150 sitting among some newer F150s

V8? yes!!!

Oh yes....

5.8L.....For $100!!

Stay tuned Oppo, because next week, I'm buying that motor!!

TheLOUDMUSIC- Put it in H! > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 19:20

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Yo.

jkm7680 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 19:21

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NOOOO FUCKING 914. FUCKING FUCK FUCK BUCKETS OF STEAMING FUCK.

NOOO, 924. FUCCCCKKKKK.

Oh, and some Rolland bait in the background of the 4th picture.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > jkm7680 09/06/2014 at 19:23

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Sad P-Cars brought a tear to mien eyes.. :(

jkm7680 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 19:27

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Me too, it just makes me want to hunt down whoever pout them there and make them pay for their sins.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > jkm7680 09/06/2014 at 19:31

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The 914 could be saved though!! :O

jkm7680 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 19:56

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Yeah, it looks like a nice shell to start a project off of. Did you see any rust?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > jkm7680 09/06/2014 at 20:03

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There wasn't much on the exterior if any. On the underside I couldn't see a thing because of it's placement. Interior was gone so it'd be a perfect candidate for a full resto. Best shell out of all of them. the paint looked new.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 20:40

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I can save it!!!

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 20:40

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I can save it!!!

jkm7680 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 20:40

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If I lived closer, I'd take it.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 20:41

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NOICE!!!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/06/2014 at 20:43

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How's that for being successful!! :D

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > jkm7680 09/06/2014 at 20:43

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Road Trip!! Rent a truck and save it please!!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/06/2014 at 20:43

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Come and get it!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/06/2014 at 20:43

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Bring a Trailer!!

jkm7680 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 20:44

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Sadly, I get a single day off every week. I've used my vacation time, and I'm not exactly Mr. Moneybags sadly.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 20:44

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I will say you are successful when you fix the 911 yourself. Also how much for that 914? And could you buy it for me and deliver it to me?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/06/2014 at 20:49

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Fair enough, but if I rebuild that motor, that's pretty winning.

There was no price on the 914, probably a couple hundred for the shell. I can't buy or deliver it though. You'll need to figure something out.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > jkm7680 09/06/2014 at 20:50

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It'll be waiting for you.

jkm7680 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 20:54

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I wish man, I wish.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 20:57

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Shit I can't drive to Detroit. Also I am glad you got a truck motor.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/06/2014 at 20:59

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Is the truck motor better?

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 21:00

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It depends.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/06/2014 at 21:03

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Depends on?

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 21:08

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If the truck had a towing package the motor usually has some better parts.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/06/2014 at 21:12

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I think it's far too gone to find that out haha.

Tohru > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 21:17

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I toldja the Windsor was a good idea.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tohru 09/06/2014 at 21:20

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Well it was the only complete Ford V8 in the lot that wasn't a stupid Modular, I had no choice. But now that I have your attentions, what do you think?

Tohru > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 21:22

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I support you having a 5.8L. After all, the Camaros you'll inevitably run into will be running 5.7L's, so you might as well level the playing field.

I had a Bronco with the 5.8L - it's a good motor. You'll be happy with it.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tohru 09/06/2014 at 21:25

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Fair enough. I just need to rent a truck and buy the thing! And bring it back to my school. The teardown will soon follow.

Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 21:26

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Sweet :D Sounds like an awesome project.

That picture of the Trans Ams makes me sad though.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage 09/06/2014 at 21:28

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All the pics make me sad. :(

Except the 5.8L pics. I'm hella happy about that.

Tohru > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 21:28

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Looking forward to the writeup.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tohru 09/06/2014 at 21:30

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First thing first though. I gotta get it out of that F-150! I've got a friend who will help me get it out. But tearing down the motor shouldn't be too hard right; so long as I keep track of all the parts pieces?

Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 21:36

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Yeah, I really can't stand to see that kind of stuff in such a dilapidated shape :( That seems like quite the awesome deal, though. Can't really beat $100 for a 351. How many miles does it have on it?

Tohru > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 21:38

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I've been doing this awhile so I usually don't have to do this, but this is what I recommend:

- Take pictures of everything.

- If you unbolt something, put the bolt back in the opening.

- If you can't put the bolt back, put it in a ziplock bag with a label for what it is.

This is critical during the teardown/rebuild:

- Have your auto parts store order in from the warehouse every part you think you will need. Doesn't cost you anything, and it's there if you need it.

- If a bolt is not attached to the engine or in a sealed ziplock bag, put it in a magnetic tray. Otherwise it WILL wander off on you.

The 5.8L is a relatively easy motor to work on, compared to the 4.6L Mod motor. You'll do fine.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage 09/06/2014 at 21:43

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No idea on the mileage, I'll see if I can read the Odometer next time I'm there; I figured it wouldn't matter as much since I'm gonna rebuild it.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tohru 09/06/2014 at 21:45

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Fantastic! My school's Fabrication Lab is gonna give me a section where I can work on it a couple of times per week during the semester. It's going to be good I hope, especially for a noob like me.

Tohru > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 21:47

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If you have the option, work as far away from floor drains as possible. Sockets and bolts are scientifically proven to be able to roll up 25 degree inclines in order to fall into a floor drain and disappear.

Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 21:49

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Yeah, figured you would be rebuilding it. Just was kinda curious. That'll be an awesome powertrain for that project, no doubt.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 22:35

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if your gunna do a bigger engine just get this and have a real ford engine

http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/pts/4613444691…

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage 09/06/2014 at 22:40

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Would you like to help? :)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tohru 09/06/2014 at 22:41

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Will do. I haven't seen the room yet, but I was told it would be sufficient enough for me to work on it.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 09/06/2014 at 22:43

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351W not a real Ford engine? It's coming out of an F-150 for crying out loud. :P

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 22:45

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Its a real one but not a car one lol. The one i posted is better for performance lol

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 09/06/2014 at 22:51

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True, this isn't going to be a full on race car, I want it to be a track day/cruiser.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 22:52

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Ever heard a 429 run? ;)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 09/06/2014 at 22:57

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I haven't... (o_o)

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 23:01

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K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 09/06/2014 at 23:06

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TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 23:08

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K-Roll-PorscheTamer > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 09/06/2014 at 23:11

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That's reserved for ze Porsche.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 23:17

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We dont want none of that commie nazi crap here. This is MERICA!

Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/06/2014 at 23:24

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I'd love to! I would have a lot to learn, though. Haven't done much but plugs, plug wires, distributor, oil, and other miscellaneous things like that.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage 09/06/2014 at 23:32

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It'll be a learning experience for me too. I haven't done anything bigger than changing oil so this has got to be fun! You've done a lot more than me so the help will be good!

Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 00:08

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Well, guess you're in the same boat as me! I'm no master mechanic by any means. I would have to study up of some stuff beforehand, for sure. I'd love to be a help, if you want a 16 year old kid hanging around.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage 09/07/2014 at 00:14

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A 19 and 16 year old hacking away at a 351 V8? Sounds like a blast haha! :D

I'm going into this with very little knowledge other than knowing how to use tools, so the more brains the better IMO. :)

LTU is a bit of a drive from Holly though.

Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 01:02

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Cool! I don't know, there's some guys I know who are older and don't want to hang out with younger kids. Glad to hear its not the case here.

Like I said, I'm no genius. I have tool knowledge and some basic maintenance knowledge. Two brains is definitely better than one, though!

Its probably a 45-50 minute drive, depending on traffic. I would probably have to wait 'till I got my license (yes, I know, it sucks). That way I could just drive myself, as my parents probably wouldn't want to drive all the way over there.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage 09/07/2014 at 01:23

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Well I'm not that old haha! I still get mistaken for a 15-16 year old at times. I know the feeling though, my solution to that was pull up in my dad's 911 and say "WHAT'S UP!!". ;)

And I'll be working on this project hopefully into the winter when I'll have to move the motor because I can't store it there(for now at least) so there's plenty of time to help out. And this project will take some time(I'm estimating and setting a goal of 6 years) so yeah. Plenty of time! :D

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 09:28

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Excellent! This is a great place to start. The problems we need to address involve how long it has been sitting. There will be sediment and surface rust, so cleaning will be that much more critical. My advice is to get it, and take as much as you can. Mounts, surviving wiring, computer, flywheel, flex plate, fans, etc. If you're not taking the transmission, make sure to note what kind it is. I know you haven't gotten to transmission yet, but know with today's market, automatics are way cheaper to buy and build up vs manual, and having the trans you know fits and works with the engine is a good thing.

So the first thing I would do when you get the engine in is to get the heads off and check the block innards and see what needs to be ground/polished/cold or hot tanked/razored.

All in all: EXCITED!!!! EXCITED!!!(Steve the Monkey voice)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold 09/07/2014 at 12:51

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When I go back this week, I'll be sure to check the mileage on the odometer if I can see it in that interior. I'm gonna take as much as I can with that motor that is or was attached to it that I can see. I don't think I'll be taking the trains though; I figured a couple years down the line I could find a manual trans(if this one isn't), and get some help rebuilding it. I'm not sure if I want an auto for this or the logically more "jalop" manual.

I definitely plan on tearing it down and cleaning just about everything in sight. What exactly is the process of having the block ground/polished/cold or hot tanked/razored?

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 13:21

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Well different parts need different methods depending on whether you're taking care of rust or carbon or both.

The bare block needs to be jet washed or hot tanked, the cam and crank would need to be ground or just replaced, the heads would need to be jet washed/tanked and the mating surfaces razored to ensure it's clean. If it turns out okay, then I'd replace the bearings and seals and rings from there, getting a kit or buying in bulk from Advance Auto with their $40/$50 of $100 coupons.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold 09/07/2014 at 13:32

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How do I go about jet washing or hot tanking and razoring? What tools are need to do this? I'm not sure my school has the tools for that. I'd assume I'd need a shop for that. Or maybe I could tear down the motor and take the individual parts to have them cleaned.

I could probably replace bearings, seals, rings and gaskets with no problem. How do you think the motor would be if I just cleaned the entire motor and replaced what needed to be replaced?

No Prius Needed > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 14:43

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Someone save this lambo!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > No Prius Needed 09/07/2014 at 14:51

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There were at least 5 of them in there, one of which was complete and could be restored. I don't think I took a pic of it, but if it's in this dump, the silver notchback.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 15:17

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Jet washing is just a high pressure hose with usually water and sometimes parts cleaner to get the really ingrained junk out. If I remember correctly, Bandit cleaned a bare block at a do-it-yourself carwash once XD

Tanking is another way of saying 'using a parts washer'. There's hot and cold tanking.

Cold tanking is using something like this to clean your parts:

People make these all the time, and I'm sure your school has one since it's pretty standard equipment.

Hot tanking is doing the same thing but with VERY high temperatures and usually VERY caustic/more deadly chemicals. But it's extremely good at cleaning steel and cast iron (not aluminum, destroys that stuff) People make their own, and I feel those people have a much higher chance at a much shorter lifespan. Here is what one looks like:

Cam grinding is fairly specific, and it's something I would take to a shop to get done, if I didn't just buy a new camshaft. Picture:

But I would probably just buy a new cam. I shall make another post about cam purchase at another point.

Razoring is you and a razor blade, doing this:

Second thing:

There are things that need to be replaced and other things that are debatable.

Bolts usually fall into this category of debatable. At first a dollar here, three dollars here might not seem like much, but it adds up. The only bolts that NEEEED to be replaced are the head bolts, since they deform when they are put in. On my rebuild this summer, the only things I regret reusing are the cap bolts (the ones holding the connecting crankshaft in place) and the connecting rod bolts. But I'm dealing with an engine 3 decades older than yours. You may have things in better shape.

And are you asking what power you'd be with just a clean up? With EFI, Wikipedia puts you here:

5.8 L V8 1992210 hp (160 kW)315 lbft (427 Nm)5.8 L V81993200 hp (150 kW)310 lbft (420 Nm)



y5.8 L V81994–96 210 hp (160 kW)325 lbft (441 Nm)

StoneCold > StoneCold 09/07/2014 at 15:20

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Well that didn't keep my chart very well. >: |

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-Se…

But replacing the camshaft (if you even need to) could bump those numbers up at the expense of fuel economy (changing what idle RPM is and higher lift[valves open longer]).

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold 09/07/2014 at 15:29

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Taking it to a DIY carwash, I could easily do that after picking it up. Should I take it apart before going to the wash though or can I just jetwash the motor as is?

Cold or Hot Tanking would definitely require a shop if my school doesn't have one.

Bolts and such sound simple enough, I'll replace the head bolts for sure.

It looks like it'll be making excellent torque with a basic clean-up and rebuild; I'm only 90hp away from my goal but that's not bad at all! :)

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 15:41

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And your money is worth more than time situation leaves you open to one of the most intense but worthwhile upgrades you can do: Porting and Polishing

Actually, just watch most of his videos; I love his explanations.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Jafromobi…

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold 09/07/2014 at 16:52

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I'm stuck in a pickle now. Someone on a Mustang Forum offered me their GT-40P heads and an Explorer upper and lower intake for a 302/EFI, and I just have to pay shipping. What should I do?? :(

Tuned-Port-Injected-Rage > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 17:01

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I'm not saying you're that old, its just that a lot of older guys around here don't like the be seen with younger guys, seeing that they're not "cool" enough. Seems like you got quite the perfect solution to that :D Pulling up in my dad's VW Rabbit really won't have the same effect lol.

Cool! That sounds like a good goal to set. Glad there is no rush to the project; with more time, it will definitely have a much better end product. I'd be more than willing to give a hand!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 17:07

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Vince!! I need some input now!! :O

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 17:09

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Yes?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 17:13

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Someone on a Mustang Forum offered me their GT-40P heads and an Explorer upper and lower intake for a 302/EFI, and I just have to pay shipping. What should I do?? :(

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 17:13

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Wot?

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 17:14

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But I thought you were using a 351?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 17:14

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I already asked you mien question tho.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 17:15

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Bababoo!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 17:19

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I KNOW!! That's the problem. A GT40-P(which are about $4-600) heads are awesomesauce for a 302 and they're in good condition. Those are great performance heads for a 302. I don't know what condition the 351 is in though. Which seems more logical to you:

1. Get the expensive heads(for the price of shipping only) Heads and a $100 short block and build it up from there saving me some money and less hassle in the long run.

2. Get the $100 351 and try to tear it down and pray that it isn't fucked up and I didn't pick up a basket case.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 17:21

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Get the heads and sell them for funds to build the $100 351.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 17:25

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Or you could shove your hand up a homeless man's ass and think about what to do.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 17:29

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But what if the 351 is actually fucked up and irrepairable without more money than I want to spend on it?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 17:30

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What does that even mean???

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 17:31

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1 don't sell heads till you find if motor is ok

2 if motor is junk you only lost $100

3 if it is junk buy 302 for heads

4 if it is in good shape sell heads

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 17:32

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It means cockatoo can too borrow you.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 18:09

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This I can into doing

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 18:11

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Who is that?

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 18:25

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WAT?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 18:28

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Cockatoo can borrow me?

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 18:29

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Yes. A cockatoo is a bird.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 18:33

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Well yeah! I know that! I don't get your meaning in the borrowing part.

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2014 at 21:21

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Maybe he needs some help.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic 09/07/2014 at 21:31

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Maybe.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/08/2014 at 16:01

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Sorry for the late reply.

It wouldn't be worth it. There's too many little things (pan, pulleys, starter, alternator, etc) that you'd need to track down. The cost would add up too.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold 09/08/2014 at 16:06

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No worries. :)

What about just the heads?

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/08/2014 at 16:19

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They miiiiight be worth it for two reasons:

1) If something is up with the truck heads, it's a relatively easy swap.

2) You can use the truck heads to practice porting and polishing so you can have better success with the GT40P heads.

THAT IN MIND: You would have to tap (enlarging the threaded holes for the head bolts, AND THAT HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT. THE FIRST TIME. NO REDOES.

So while your space probably has the equipment for such a task, that is something better left for a shop. Plus I don't think it costs much to do.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold 09/08/2014 at 17:25

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So basically, I'd have to re-drill the holes to bigger, so to speak. I'll have a shop do it because it's a one-time deal and I cannot afford to have that go bad.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/10/2014 at 16:09

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ooooo sounds fun.

I'm totally in support of this plan. Let me know if you have any questions I can help with